This election campaign has seen more of a focus on the issues of immigration, population and asylum seekers than any other election in recent times. Whilst it’s heartening to see these subjects being discussed, there has been little discussion around the related topic of social cohesion.
Australians are concerned about the total number of people migrating to Australian, but they’re also concerned about social cohesion and how well some immigrants manage, or are willing to, accept the Australian way of life.
Julia Gillard said during the campaign that she would like to bring in “the right kind of migrant”. Whilst Gillard should be applauded for making such a statement, unfortunately for the general public this statement is just spin as the government currently does not have, and does not propose to have any mechanism for bringing in “the right kind of migrant”.
The world is currently seeing levels of migration that are unprecedented in human history. Some of these people are fleeing persecution; others are simply looking for a better way of life. With such large people flows, Australia should have a policy of choosing people that are going make a positive contribution to our society.
This is a point made by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an African immigrant to the West who has rejected her Islamic upbringing. With her first hand experience of living in two very different cultures, she is now committed to warning people of the dangers of allowing unfettered migration from societies and cultures that are not compatible with Western democracy.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is currently in Australia. She was recently interviewed on the ABC’s Lateline program and spoke freely about subjects that most Australians politicians fear to mention.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been voted by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world, she has written two books Infidel and Nomad: From Islam to America: A Personal Journey Through the Clash of Civilizations.
Highlights of her interview on Lateline are below. Ayaan Hirsi Ali speaks on these subjects with an honesty, clarity and purpose that would be refreshing to see in one of our political leaders.
Leigh Sales: In Nomad you write that a lot of well meaning people in the West have trouble accepting that all human beings are equal but all cultures and religions are not. Elaborate on that for us.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: I took notice of this when I was a member of the Labor party in The Netherlands and I would talk about the position of Muslim women in The Netherlands, and so many of the enlightened liberal people around me would respond by saying ‘but we’ve got to respect their culture’. And when we talked the specifics of what is was that we had to respect it boiled down to forced marriages, honour killings, female genital mutilation…we would ignore all of this, do nothing about it and the only rationalisation that these people could give me, and these were people in power, was to say ‘but we’ve got to respect their culture’. And I thought yeah, cultures are not equal, it’s individual human beings that are equal.
Leigh Sales: The argument that I’ve heard your critics make in response to that is that, well all cultures and societies are flawed and have their problems.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: That’s true, all cultures are flawed, but what I’ve learnt in the last 18 years when I came to the West is Western flaws – the white man’s flaws - his sexism, his racism, his prejudices have been criticised, and radically changed. The white man is no longer as racist as he was 50 years ago or 100 years ago. But men of colour, and I’m not talking only about men who are Muslim, but I’m talking about Chinese, Indians, men of colour, are excused from that same critical scrutiny of cultures, their customs, their habits, their religious principals. And so again it boils down to; yes all cultures are flawed, but if we want to aspire to a society, whether it’s on a national level or on the global level of individual rights and respect for human rights then we have to criticise these other cultures just as much as the white man’s culture was criticised.
Leigh Sales: You also argue in your book that there’s no such thing as a moderate Muslim, what do you mean by that?
What I mean by that is that I try to separate Islam from Muslims. Muslims as individuals – each and every research show that people who identify themselves as Muslim don’t know very much about what’s in the Koran, they don’t know very much about what the prophet Mohammed said, they’ve only been taught ‘you’ve got to obey the Koran and what the prophet Mohammed said and they’re both infallible, the book is infallible, the prophet is infallible – the founder of Islam’. And increasingly the agents of radical Islam take advantage of that.
But if you scrutinise Islam as a model philosophy – I’m not talking about the religious dimension of prayer and fasting- I’m talking more about the political dimension, Sharia law, the concept of Jihad and the social laws that govern the relationship between men and women, you see that…there aren’t very different flavours to it, there is really one big flavour, and everywhere where Sharia law is introduced you see the same violations of human rights and the subjection of women.
Leigh Sales: We’re currently having a debate in Australia about appropriate levels of immigration and also how asylum seekers should be processed. How should countries decide who to allow in?
I think we just completely and radically have to change the way we look at immigration given the new context. We use the 1951 Geneva Refugee Convention this is completely outdated. We use human rights treaties which were established also for the period between 1945 and 1989 and after 1989 the world has changed. Just to give you an example there were about one million refuges in 1951. Today the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees reports 40 million people who are refugees, asylum seekers and internally displaced.
That scale calls for a complete revamping of immigration policies…the relationship should be, also given the advent of radical Islam that liberal democratic countries like Australia should establish a new relationship with immigrants.
Who is good for our country and who is going to contribute to Australia and in exchange we’ll provide them with the opportunity to live in a peaceful prosperous society where they can build a life for themselves. If they say no to that then I think it would be justified to say such a person cannot stay and not be a part of this society and can be returned. That is more honest it’s more practical and it becomes a two way contribution. One person gets an opportunity to a good life, and a society gets an immigrant that is useful for that society.
Leigh Sales: If an immigrant said well, I don’t like those terms, it doesn’t necessarily make them any less of a refugee if they were seeking asylum.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: Well, yes, but that is the harsh reality. If there are 40 million people and we already have established that Australia or The Netherlands or the United States can’t take in all 40 million of them, we have to make choices and unfortunately for that person that wants to reject the values of the country he or she wants to seek protection, and even become an insurgent and reject democracy, cause harm, then that person just has to go, drop to the latter part of the 40 million, and it’s better to give an opportunity to someone that really will make something of his life, will not harm other people, and is just going to contribute to society.
Leigh Sales: Do you think that that should include very specific targets in terms of numbers that are coming in, regions and countries from where people come?
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: That would be the realistic thing to do. It is inevitable to think that way unless you think we can take in all 40 million.